“You are scum, domain hoarder. f*ck you”

129

For all the in-fighting that takes place within the domain industry, I think we should consider what some people outside of the domain space think about people who buy and sell domain names. Yesterday evening (or maybe early this AM), someone left the following comment on my blog:

“You are scum, domain hoarder. fuck you”

I don’t think anyone has ever said anything like this to my face before, but I am sure there have been plenty of people who share this sentiment about domain name owners. I have no idea where the anger comes from, but it seems that many people who want our domain names don’t think too fondly of people who own portfolios of domain names.

There’s nothing all that surprising with respect to this particular comment, but it’s something domain owners need to realize when pitching domain names for sale. Some people just don’t seem to like people who own domain portfolios.

129 COMMENTS

  1. Thanks for posting this. It’s nice to know others also get domain-envy hate mail… although that one was pretty vicious. Funny how no one ever says that about real estate investment speculators.

  2. Even if there was no “domain hoarding” going on, people inquiring about these names in the year 2014 are at minimum 10 years late to the game. People who make comments like this obviously don’t know much about the Internet.

    If the owner of a name was forced to develop it, that development would happen so they could hold onto the names. High value domains wouldn’t just sit around unregisterd. Someone would pick them up in some capacity and develop because of the obvious value.

  3. The Real Estate analogy is always the perfect one . No one ever says anything about the landlord or the richman that owns 5,10,40 properties and accuse them of hoarding . They just call them entrepreneurs and pat them on the back

    • You love to see yourself like someone who owns 30 properties but you are not that at all. What you are is someone who rents an entire apartment building for yourself. You don’t own those domains. You lease them. You are all pieces of shit who rent apartments for reasonable prices, then sublease them at extraordinary rates to people who actually have ideas. You should be evicted. I name companies and build brands. I run into you pieces of shit all the time. You add nothing to the world. You take. Going through the dictionary and buying words is not an act of extraordinary genius. You destroy jobs because you make companies waste capital on paying your extortion rates. You are scum and should all kill yourselves. Literally kill yourselves. I’m sure you own suicide.com. You can live stream the videos of you hanging yourselves from there.

    • Harsh, but the undercurrent of the post is entirely correct. The real estate analogy used by domain investors falls flat on it’s face for a number of reasons:

      1. Unlike property investment (commercial or residential), domain “investing” no other people apart from the investor benefits. Nothing is built, so construction companies, tradespeople and agents. Oh, I hear you say, “but lawyers are often used during the transfer of a domain”. I counter with, “well I did say no other people benefit :-)”
      2. There is a disproportionate ratio of investment opportunities secured per investor when compared with property investors. I do not know many property investors with a couple of hundred plus properties. Some domain investor whales have millions.
      3. Property investors do not use scripts and algorithms to snap up properties the moment they are released.
      4. There is little to no effort in domain investing. It’s not clever and you do not create anything. It is all about timing and those that got in early simply had an advantage. Those that did not have the opportunity (i.e. born too late) must suffer.
      5. The asking rate for domain names is way too high in most cases. I see many on here bragging (that’s all it can be described as) that they bagged domain names at a few bucks and onsold them at $XXXX with no effort involved. While property investment can yield high returns, how many properties are sold at %XXXX profit?
      6. Markets are driven by supply and demand. The unscrupulous few have raised demand for .com domains because they are now all off the open market. There are still desirable properties to be purchased anywhere in the world and they are available at a much fairer market rate then .com domains.
      7. Property investors generally lease the property they have purchased to another persons or entity, thereby providing a means for that person to live or work where it suits.

      Paint it any way you want to, but you are limiting the ability for people with limited startup capital to establish a business, unless they want to register something ridiculous like sdfkjdfskbj433.com. This is a result of greedy individuals and the corrupt practices employed by ICANN and TLDRs giving an advantage to those that want to game the system.

  4. Elliot,

    Why would you take down my comment? There was nothing wrong with that at all. I would appreciate an email explaining why.

    • I was playing tennis for the last hour and approved both comments when I got off the court.

      Your first comment was awaiting moderation, which is why it did not appear right away.

    • NP. I just saw others get approved after mine and then it disapeared on my end. You don’t have to post/approve this comment or my prev one inquiring about it not getting posted. Either way I don’t care. I was just curious about my initial post primarily.

      Hope you had a good work out. Tennis is fun 🙂

  5. Damn straight.. It’s bullshit.. I had an attorney once refer to me as a notorious cyber squatter.. so I registered it.. Usually they automatically think you registered the domain to screw them and have a very bad attitude.. I own some domains that the intended end user was or should have been miles ahead of me since they ran tech savoy businesses while I was just cutting hair as a barber.. Once I learned the url to netsol and how to use the mouse I went off on a tear. Anyway don’t take any of it personally and just smile and tell them your asking price… I am an internet/digital real estate investor. Unless they’ve got a trademark then I am just forfeiting the domain to avoid a lawsuit.. I don’t really own any trademarked names that I am aware of anyway. I got some stories that would make you roll on the floor.. of LYFAO.. peace. Thanks Elliot.. Hey can I post a few domains for sale here.. lolo

  6. When doing outbound marketing most folks either don’t respond or politely say “not interested” or “I already have a domain name (reg fee quality) :)” but I have only gotten a “f— off” response once thus far – a videogame website.

    While many end users seem to have the mentality that reg fee is all they want to pay for a domain name, the reality is that any business regularly spends thousands of dollars monthly on all sorts of business expenses. As someone who has worked in finance/accounting for most of my career it still amazes me the reluctance to spend even $XXX on a decent domain which is clearly superior to what they already have.

  7. That’s a poetic love song compared to a few that I have received.

    Lots of angry, tilted folks out there.

    Thanks for sharing. Hope it doesn’t happen again.

  8. Anyone who thinks there isn’t an undercurrent of resentment towards landlords must live in a sparsely populated area. Land owners have been hated by plebs from the beginning of time.

  9. “Look, I can get this-name1.fr for 6 Euros and you are asking xxxx Euros for thisname.fr ! You are a thief ! Anyway, I decided to name my new company “thisname” so thisname.fr belongs to me ! Give it !”

    This is the kind of message I get when trying to sell some domains to my fellow french citizens. Fortunately, the rest of the world better understands what business is.

  10. “Some people just don’t seem to like people who own domain portfolios.”

    Your absolutely right, only I would change the word from “some” to “most”.

    I don’t think Domaining is something any of us would put on our resume, we all know it’s a respectable and legitimate business amongst ourselves but unfortunately public perception is not so favorable, Simply put, domainers are seen in a negative light, so before that inquiry is even sent out were already viewed as a unfavorable source to do business with.

    The ones I get who write; “are you on f*cking crack?” or calling me a cybersquatter are people who realize theirs no chance of acquiring the domain and they just want to vent their frustration, which should be ignored because nothing of any benefit will come out of it.

    • You add no value you parasite. When business develop something they 10000x time the actual value to get the name from CyberSquaters. This is what happens when used car salesman from Detroit discovers internet, they ruin it for everyone.

      Your are scumbags who should be thrown to lava bit to redeem your self.

      What you do is not respectable and the only reason you are not in jail is because of the ICANN corruption.

  11. We are domain protectors not hoarders! Domainers have made businesses competitive by giving them the names they need to compete in their respective markets. By the way HOARDING is not limited to domaining!

  12. It’s somewhat understandable why some ignorant people may feel this way. I would just explain to them that:

    The Domain Industry = The Real Estate Industry / Property Online

    Domain Investor = Online Real Estate / Property Investor

    You (Angry Commenter) = Crazy nut angry at a Real Estate Investor for being a Real Estate Investor….

    • It’s nothing like real estate. Real estate require paying expenses for taxes, upkeep, zoning, etc. I own a couple of domain on sites I developed and I own a few properties. Trust me, they are very different.

    • I think Memorable was more or less referring to the concept of domain names being like real estate, not so much a literal sense. I liken domaining to real estate with family and friends all the time so they understand what the business is like. In real estate, there’s only one spot of land, one house, one condo, ect to sell. If it’s in a prime location, such as on the ocean, there is more demand thus the price goes up. It’s the same thing with domains; if you own a 3L .com, a 4L .com, a one word keyword domain, ect there’s only ONE that can be sold. If you have more people wanting to buy it, the price goes up.

  13. What I find most annoying (insulting) are $xxx offers for $xxxxx domains from major (professional) brokers like Goddady or Sedo.

  14. The domain industry doesn’t help themselves by calling client buyers ‘end users’ this de-humanising term is so archaic and out of touch! No wonder the non-domainer see’s the domainer as a greedy Internet wanna be.

    Read;

    po.st/endit

    for a different view.

    • “de-humanising term is so archaic”

      Since when is the term used when conversing with buyers? it’s NOT, it has always been used among resellers and appropriately so I might add… End user is referred to as an individual who develops the domain, where the domain name is ultimately put to USE, does the word “Buyer” give that same definition?

    • It’s a perfectly useful, efficient and convenient term and there is nothing pejorative or negative about it. Frankly I wonder if you post is even genuine rather than some attempt at self-amusement. Just recently I replied to a broker’s inquiry and used that term…

    • @John @Raider Just because the term has been used since the 60s doesn’t mean it should still be used in the 21st century. I’m not saying domainer should not use it, all I’m saying I would never use it. I don’t believe my clients are robots.

      You keep on dredging down the industry!

      @John It’s people like you that probably haven’t even had a proper client anyway. “This is my ‘End User’ BAH get with it!

    • If you guys want respect in the domain industry from your buyers that are spending $x.xxx – $xxx.xxx on your domain names, then I wouldn’t called them ‘end users’.

      Do you think your buyer wants to be called an ‘end user’ or a client? in this day and age!

      Just because the term is so ingrained in the industry doesn’t mean you have to use it!

      This is one of the reason domainers are seen as ‘sharks’ and if you don’t see it, that’s a shame.

    • Is this Howie for real, or on drugs or play acting? He didn’t see how Raider even used caps to say that people don’t use the term when conversing with buyers? And I don’t have “clients.” I replied to an unsolicited broker only as a potential seller. Howie is the one who needs to “get with it” on this and he’s either playing here or simply off.

    • My thoughts exactly, I don’t think there was ever a time I used the words “end user” to a potential buyer, it’s always been on a first name basis, it’s a no brainer.

      If domainers are perceived as “sharks” its because the industry is cut throat as I pointed out in the “Raider” discussion, many of our industry leaders are the worst of the bunch, but that’s how they got where they are, by CHEATING, cutting to the front of the line and taking all the goodies for themselves, unethical SOB’s IMO.

      And Howie suggests it’s because of our wording? I think he needs to come down from whatever he’s on.

    • LOL There just my thoughts and I don’t use ‘end user’ 😉

      But why even ‘off the record’ call domain client’s ‘end users’ lol Does a domain client become to an end? Like the Dusky Antechinus that dies after reproduction? NO!

      @john & @raider your comments are shallow and pointless.

    • @raider Are you post or pre menopausal? A valid question.

      However, it is also valid that even Elliot has posted a targeted blog regarding you and your correspondence towards our host in a manner that you poise your continuous blurb towards him and others as antagonistic, patronising, defensive and insulting! However, I believe Elliot is a fair man for freedom of speech and OK with that.

      For your information, I made the comment, “I would have banned you by now” There is no way I would have a loose canon like yourself around on my blog LOL. How degrading!

      I believe you have been banned from DNforum.

      Listen raider, who ever you are? At least be someone! I don’t take what ever you say seriously, as what I say I have faith in, and what you’re attempting to say mean’s nothing.

    • LOL.. now now Howie, diverting attention away from your own stupidity by attacking me personally just doesn’t work, Let’s be clear, it was YOU who posted that a “end user” is in your own words; a “de-humanizing term that is archaic and out of touch” Notice that NOBODY here agrees with you on that, STOP and THINK for a moment about other references consumers are referred to as, Would you say that auto salesmen using the term “car owners” is de-humanizing as well? I’ll bet your dumb enough to believe it is.

      I for one don’t need your correctness, especially when it’s coming from a bottom feeder who peddles in pigeon shit, the only difference between a bottom feeder and you is your self righteous and stuck up attitude, a common trait among you Brits, intolerant of anyone’s opinion but his own, just like the other a-hole who was so intolerant of a political question being asked that he felt compelled to hit the ban button, he couldn’t offer a rebuttal, instead he takes the chicken sh*t approach and bans a exclusive member of 7 years, and over stepping his authority..

      If I asked who is most harmed from bans and censorship, you’d say the people who got banned, the Howie way of encouraging member participation, your not smart enough to see the negative impact it has on those forums and blogs, like the attitude toward staff and record decline in participation, Elliot on the other hand realizes all of that and he appreciates contributions whether he agrees with them or not, that’s why he’s a successful blogger and not a bottom feeder offering names like FantasyRetro.com for $50 a pop.

      If your going to be an opinionated a-hole, at least be an experienced one.

    • He seems like he may not be for real, Raider, but perhaps just deliberately and disingenuously trying to get a rise out of you and to a lesser extent now me. Recently I was posting at a well known news site and one contrarian poster even admitted that he was only there to do just that. You do have a delightful way of kicking people’s ass nontheless when they deserve to have their ass kicked, though I’m inclined to recommend not even wasting your time on this guy who appears to just be trying to bait and play both you and me.

    • P.S. It’s too funny that I’m even posting here now so early in the morning, but I happened to catch an email with yours in it and it looked juicy enough to check the thread out again. I don’t always subscribe for the follow ups, though. This Howie is also starting to make me laugh, lol, as in out loud and for real. Cheers…

    • That reminds me of something I posted about before. I can still prove that over 10 years ago when I was first starting out and very “green,” one of my discoveries and attempts to reg a certain .com through a reseller was blocked and apparently stolen while I was successively registering numerous ones, only to show up several days later with a new reg date several days later than my original blocked attempt, and in the possession of a very famous sales entity. I didn’t even have a computer then and was regging from the library of a famous top university, as a visitor and not a student or staff. It’s a desirable name, though fortunately not worth a fortune. They’ve just had to pay for renewals all these years, however, as it apparently never sold, how fitting.

    • This was supposed to appear under your post from June 19th, 2014 at 4:53 am, Raider, but the blog software put it here instead.

    • Another thing this reminds me of is the saga of .web. People may have largely forgotten all about Chris Ambler and how .web was even active once, but I haven’t. Although I kind of feel bad for him regarding this, nonetheless I recall there was something about people already having the inside scoop on “pre-registrations” that didn’t sound good to me. There was talk over at DNF about it in which he also posted, I imagine the thread(s) would still be there. One or two were even concerned about all the money they had spent on these apparently special-privilege insider .web regs. It sounded very much like “cheating” and “cutting to the front of the line,” and as I recall Ambler may have even made a post along the lines of saying that’s just the way it goes and some people had indeed been given this kind of special insider’s grab at the pie before anyone else.

    • Okay, I don’t know if it’s a slight bug with the blog software or not, but this last post of mine was also supposed to appear under your June 19, 2014 4:54 AM post, Raider. Or perhaps it doesn’t like to keep indenting, which would make sense after a point. So anyway, for the record, my last posts of 6:49 AM and 7:06 AM belong under your post of 6/19/2014 4:53 AM…

    • Oh dear, this is classic DI comment status now, @raider is on firing form. I’m bowing out on mere professionalism now.

      It’s a shame DomainInvesting.com is let down by trolls such as @raider, there are been some good contributors here, but my time here is spent, I’t’s not becoming the intellectual site it used to be 3/4 years ago. (When I was a wall flower).

      Bye Bye Elliot, best regards, but I it doesn’t feel like a business site anymore.

    • Your right John, he’s a classic troll, stirring up the hornets nest, personal attacking you and I and then having the audacity to whine about how “unprofessional” it is here.

      You can always spot a troll by what they bring to the table, he has brought nothing to this thread, nothing we can learn or benefit from in anyway.

    • “@raider Are you post or pre menopausal? A valid question”

      “@john & @raider your comments are shallow and pointless”

      “I would have banned you by now”

      “it’s not becoming the intellectual site it used to be 3/4 years ago.

      “it doesn’t feel like a business site anymore.

      I suggest you go back to DNF where all the other hypocrites hang out, you’ll be among friends.

    • OK last ever post. Must admit I did get sucked into the venomous posting.

      But not trolling lol.

      Alas, Chinese domain sale completed today by escrow, $1,700 all things good as usual 😉

      zài jiàn

    • “I’t’s not becoming the intellectual site it used to be 3/4 years ago.”

      I think you must have the wrong site in mind. I don’t think it’s ever been particularly intellectual.

    • Another case is Kevin Ham did with Cameroon and landing the .cm TLD, which really is a typo scam that infringes on A LOT of trademarks. Another one that infringes is Mann’s DomainMarket.com , offering to sell names like googlemicrosoft.com, do a search on that site and you’ll find plenty more, like “Twitter”

      I was at a Stone fabricator ordering a counter top last year, I got to talking to the salesman and he begins telling me about his Wife who works at a Hotel, he then asks if I know what cybersquatting is and I pretended not to know, he then goes onto to say how the hotel was forced to pay $3500 for a domain that contained the Hotel’s name, a trademarked name, I wont say the name but will tell you it’s well known, I asked why the Hotel didn’t sue for the rights to the domain and he replied that it would cost far more than $3500 in attorney fees.

      The point is, we all get lumped into the same rotten basket, so when someone refers to domainers as hoarders, scum and cybesquatter, it’s difficult to defend it because so many in our industry ARE.

  15. We are not domain hoarders — we do not collect domain names like one would collect stamps or butterflies and sit there on Saturday mornings in our bathrobes admiring our collections with a magnifying glass.

    We are domain traders — we buy and sell domain names, just like a stock trader, precious metals trader, an antique dealer, or one of those celebrated, as-seen-on-TV house flippers during the go-go mid-2000s. The last thing we want to do is simply sit on a domain name — we want to move it as soon as possible at the best price possible, just like any other trader or dealer. We have to feed our families too.

    I prefer to tell people, “I buy and sell raw land, both physical and virtual”. When they ask what I mean by virtual raw land, I explain that it’s Internet domain names – the same thing as physical raw land but in the virtual world. They go, “Oooh, I see.”

    When someone complains that the price isn’t $10 I want to ask them, “So do you call up owners of empty lots around your town and give them grief that they should be selling their lot to you for $10 since the owner is not using it or building on it?”

    Or, if they call me a squatter, I want to clarify their sloppy use of the English language: “How could the owner of an empty lot be called a squatter when he is in fact the legal owner of that empty lot — a squatter is someone who does NOT own the lot but is using it without the owner’s permission or fair compensation. I am the legal owner of the (non-trademarked) domain name; I most certainly could not be considered a squatter.”

    Lastly, yesterday I saw in the news that a 1 cent stamp from 1865 sold for $9.5 million at auction recently. The original buyer of that stamp only paid 1 cent for it! Yet, looky there, years later somebody else saw fit to pay not 1 cent, but $9.5 million, for it. I think I’ll ask complainers if they feel equally incredulous about the stamp buyer getting ripped off on that 1 cent stamp.

  16. Weak. Did you respond to him and explain how it works? See if the guy had the guts to debate you on it?

    Nothing wrong with hoarding domains if you’re not violating any trademarks. The problems I have is with not putting them to use and parking just to make money on them (and then they rarely make much money that way anyways) when you could easily put them to use hosting a video or something Educate the world – ** put an educational video on there from YouTube ** – or give them some great music or something instead of wasting their time when they probably don’t like where they go when they click on the ads anyways! You can put a video on there free through Cax in like 10 seconds! Don’t tell me these domainers can’t do that. They’re just lazy and interested in one thing. Cash.

    Other pet peeve is domainers who ask way too much for their domains. Don’t get greedy. Ask the potential buyer to tell you what they’re going to use it for. If they have a great plan for it don’t get greedy. Then let them have it for a good price. The big players are way too greedy and they make the domain market illiquid. Why does it have to be so illiquid? The domain market should be like the stock market. For generic keyword domains prices could be set automatically based on search tool data. That’s just logical. There has to be a way to work out a formula for it, an algorithm.

    It’s because of this GREED, mostly by the big players, that they’re flooding us with all the new gTLD’s. If they had not been so greedy and there had been automatic pricing there never would have been a need for the gTLD’s and we’d still be .com/net/org.

    That’s what he should be complaining about, not the simple act of getting a lot of domains under one owner. It’s the irresponsible behavior of greedy domainers once they get a ton of those domains that is the problem.

    • “Automatic pricing”? “a pricing algorithm”?

      Matthew, the Soviet Union collapsed, remember? Capitalism won the Cold War. So, rightfully so, prices are set by buyers and sellers in the markets — supply and demand. The price of Berkshire Hathaway stock you see online right now is high not because of Warren Buffett’s greedy expectations for prices of his shares, but because of the limited number of shares available on the market and the super high demand from buyers for those limited shares.

      Premium .com domain names are priced high because there’s only one unit of supply of each (there’s only one Insurance.com in the entire world) and the demand from around the world for that one domain name is massively high. Why should the registrant of a premium .com domain name subject himself to your Marxist “automatic pricing algorithm” when he will always have thousands of buyers from around the world telling him to ignore that computed price — they will happily pay him even more for it!

      Markets will always win over social engineering, which is all that your automatic pricing engineering is. It’s why black markets thrive in Cuba, North Korea, etc. — as well they should, because the social engineering only makes people hungry and desperate to survive instead of getting what they need from the markets at market-clearing prices.

  17. “It’s because of this GREED, mostly by the big players”

    Yes, but it extends beyond the registries, Domainers who use unethical means of grabbing the best domains, depriving everyone else of the opportunity are worst of the bunch IMO, if anyone should be referred to as “scum”, it’s these guys.

    • Careful – don’t confuse unethical with just being smarter, faster, and better capitalized than you at getting a domain from a registrant who apparently no longer wants to keep paying for it. You could be doing the same thing – if you were smarter, faster, and better capitalized.

    • Don’t confuse smarter, faster and better capitalised with being unethical. Because that’s what the majority of these algo domainers are. Just because you have the means to establish a monopoly on something does not make it right.

  18. “Domainers who use unethical means of grabbing the best domains, depriving everyone else of the opportunity”

    I’m confused. We all have the same opportunity of bidding on expired domains.
    And, the private catchers (for example, HugeDomains) only win when the big catchers are not pursuing the domain.

    Is there something else you are referencing?

    I figure the only major advantage the larger domainers have is deeper pockets. ???

    • When you have a Registrar or in this case a dozen Registrars working for ONLY YOU at grabbing domain names, that is an unfair advantage.. When these Regisrars are successful at grabbing domains on a daily basis, how does that afford ALL of us the same opportunity of grabbing those same domains? it doesn’t.

      I cant count the number of times I had a backorder placed at every catch service in existence only to have it nabbed by the Manns of the world, maybe you got into the game a bit late, look it up.

    • Why on earth would ALL of us be entitled to having the same chance of grabbing a dropping domain? That is not how the real world works. That is not how it is in, for example, the real estate industry when a new empty lot goes on the market — those who have taken the time and capital up front to invest in the technology and industry relationships to be the first ones to hear about a new listing very fairly get first dibs at the listings. Those who don’t work and invest upfront only hear about the listings later — they are in no way entitled to hear about the listings at the same time as those who planned ahead. Why would you expect the domain industry to be uniquely different for some reason? Folks who buy registrars to grab dropping domains have invested time and capital up front to be the first — by milliseconds — to grab the domain name. If we want to compete against that, we have to do the same thing or find something even more innovative or capital-intensive to compete. That’s life.

    • I don’t think you know what I’m referring to Vladimir, research the number of registrars buydomains, vertical axis and name administration had working for them, IF for example they had ALL the registrars in their back pocket, drop catchers like NameJet, Snap, Pool and others would NOT exist, and none of us would be acquiring any drops, and your claiming that’s fair game?

      You may approve of monopolizing the industry, I do NOT.

    • That would be an oligarchy, not a monopoly (I am one who knows these things all too well).

      I’ve done the research. They in fact do not have all the registrars in their back pocket and other drop catchers do in fact exist, so there is no monopoly for you to be complaining about. That is the reality.

      I do not know your age, but being on the later side of life I can tell you that there is no such thing as “fair game” in life and there never has been for millennia (Darwin’s survival of the fittest, remember?) and there never will be in our lifetime. So, toss the rose-colored fallacy of fairness right out the window.

      Do some parties out there have an advantage? Yes, indeed. They have earned it through foresight, time, capital, and hard work. I don’t know about you, but they were and are smarter, faster, and better capitalized than I am. Thus is life. I don’t hate them or envy them or complain about them in public forums. Adaptation to the reality is what Darwin said is necessary to survive and compete to win. That is what I choose to do.

      I am done with this discussion. Now, let’s all get out there catch some dropping domain names!

  19. The way the system is set up, if everyone acquired registrars to grab domains exclusively for themselves there would be NO drop catchers, that was my point.

    Yeah they earned it through capital and hard work, taking advantage of a gaping hole in the system and making it work to their advantage, kind of like what wall street investors do, the bottom line is it’s underhanded and UNETHICAL, just like working for Godaddy and bidding on domains was UNETHICAL.

  20. Pardon my levity, but for old geezers like me who ever experienced the excellent “I, Claudius” series on PBS with Derek Jacobi et al, still the best line of them all resembling this was when the evil empress Livia gave a little pep talk to those who were about to face almost certain death in the arena and began it by telling them “you’re all scum and you know it…” BTW I’m not really that old, but I like to refer to myself that way sometimes… 😉

  21. Thanks to Elliot Silver for this wonderful post.
    My story is similar to the victim who said this but, I didn’t. I was in similar scenario in May-July 2010 when I was just starting domain flipping (just given up my day job thinking that I could make a living out from this). My journey was stopped at the beginning becauce of a scammer who scammed me about $250 and put my 30 great domains into useless business.
    The guy claimed that he was interested in buying 1 of my domains and willing to pay me 10K. Unlike other new sellers I was thrilled to see this offer and responded positively. He then sent me a link to appraise my domains that the value might be verified and gave me a link. I paid about $250 for two domain appraisals. I received the certificates two days later. Yes the price per domain was above 10K! Oh my God! I bought them only for $16!
    Then the sad story started. I asked him when and how he wanted to buy my domains and make the payments. I waited few days and mailed again, then again. But I was shocked that the guy did not reply my mails afterwards.
    I listed my domains on SEDO, paid for premium listing. But unfortunately none of them was sold.
    I lost my hope on this business and planned to develop websites on them and use adsense to earn from. That also never happened. The domains were deleted eventually.
    Last year I bought some websites and top quality domains to start again. After keeping them for a year and developing some websites, I’m thinking now to sell them off.

    • You were hit with the old “domain appraisal” scam. It has been discussed in some of the domain forums going back years. You should regard everyone who contacts you with a healthy measure of suspicion, as there is more than one type of scam out there. In fact, never post your domains for “appraisal” in any online domain forum because as Raider has so accurately pointed out this industry tends to be very cutthroat and the “appraisal” section of domain forums tend to be a place where you will also experience cutthroat wicked behavior, such as people lying and claiming that your domain is worthless or worth much less than it really is. Then you have that nonsense on the Web permanently for a real potential buyer to possibly find, which could work against you. So the bottom line is – treat everyone with suspicion, including in domain forums, and try to learn the normal things to be wary of.

    • Thank you John,

      In fact I wasn’t so suspicious at that time as it was just my beginning. I used to trust everyone online with top respect.

      I didn’t even know that there are great forums like DI available online where new investors like me can learn.

      I appreciate your advice. I’ll apply it for my remaining premium domains which I’m planning to set up for auction in the next week. Or I’ll request a broker to help me listing them.

  22. Yeah, create no value, buy up whatever you can afford and wait until someone richer than you offers to buy it. Domain hoarders are real good guys.

    Typical libtard mentality

  23. There’s a huge difference between real state investing and domain hoarding. Profit margins. If I invest in real state, I end up earning reasonable margins. Because I don’t add any real value to that property I shouldn’t expect to obtain several hundred times the price I paid for it. Domain hoarders buy domains for $10 and sells them for $4000, again, without adding any value to it.

    So basically, if I invest in real state, I won’t be charging the person buying from me hundreds of times more than what they would have paid had they bought that same property under the same conditions I did.

  24. If you can’t come up with the idea, don’t buy the domain. I understand trying to get rich of people’s dreams, but that doesn’t make you an entrepreneur, your just a dude who hordes names – plane and simple.
    There are many geniuses out there that are really young and can’t afford to back order domains, which is counter intuitive for our growing society and you guys just horde and horde for the sake of making money easily, disgusting… Go out there, come up with an idea and implement it – perhaps you might get rich that way without having to build a so called “portfolio” of domains which btw can be done by a monkey if giving instructions.

  25. domain hoarding is a strain on the economy and society. If your hoarding domains and not developing you deserve the hate mail. Your making it more difficult for real entrepreneurs and those with real dreams. Your among the scum of the backwater internet.

  26. I don’t care what you may think but domain hording is one of the worst things that has happened to the internet. Going out and buying every conceivable name and variation of a name then trying to sell the undeveloped name for 1200 to 3000 usd is ludicrous. As it has been said if it was developed so that it would drive visitors to the page then I can see why you would want money for it. I say the government starts charging tax on sites like the do land. Sure you can buy as many as you want but you have to pay $200 a year to keep it. I bet many of these hoarders would drop sites fast. You think you are offering something of value but all you are doing is hurting free enterprise and making everything worse. Do not think you are some superhero of the web, you are blood sucking leeches. This is not domain envy either. For example if I owned and was using a website such as http://www.domaininvesting.com and you wanted to buy it then it is fair that you should have to pay. However if you are just buying as many names as you can to force people to pay you then you are a . . . well let’s me just stop while I can be civil.

    • Domain hoarding is pure evil and morally wrong plain and simple. Its selfish and is huge damage to the internet community. It should be a felony IMHO with big fines. It’s preventing alot of businesses from effecting internet marketing.

    • jon peckham,

      Please first define “domain hoarding” for me, then prove why “domain hoarding” is “evil and morally wrong.”

      Also, I would like for you to share with me, in depth, why you believe the “internet” is a “community.”

      I look forward to interacting with you on this topic.

    • I agree totally. The renewal fees should be based on the value of the domain. If an owners claims their domain is appraised at $5000, the renewal fee should be in proportion to that value. This way, it forced domainers to price it properly or pay more. That’s how real estate works. If I own prime real estate property in NYC, guess what? It will cost me a lot more in taxes than a property is Detroit. Domainers want to claim owning domains is like real estate and yet ignore the most fundamental rules!

  27. It is impossible to have a intelligent debate with a Democrat about anything, emotion will always trump logic.

    • Maybe, instead of just buying domains and selling them for extortionate prices, you should actually contribute to society. How does selling a domain name fo $35000 help humanity?

  28. The reason people dislike name hoarders like you is that you provide no value to society.

    Ticket resellers provide a service website that enables those who have tickets and do not want to attend the ability to sell them.
    Land owners typically develop land and that is a benefit.

    But…a domain hoarder is more like a terrorist-kidnapper.
    You take names as hostage and work to get a ransom to fund more terrorist activities.

    You can do all you can to justify it in your head, but in reality you add no value to society other than preventing people wanting to use the name to try something else.

    The “scum” comment my be a little harsh, but it’s in the right direction.

    • “Land owners typically develop land and that is a benefit.”

      That’s a stretch (to say the least). In addition, back before large cities were developed, that almost certainly wasn’t the case. People and companies who wanted to develop land had to pay market rates to acquire the land from the landowners.

  29. I think the line about ‘No value to society” is an even farther stretch.. If domain reselling was not allowed, how would any person or business acquire a domain name that has already be registered? Domainers provide a service by preserving that name for resale, Just because wannabe domain owners like powerplant cant afford to buy it at an inflated price doesn’t make the practice wrong…

    Get a better job, make more money and you wont bitch so much.

    • That would be fine if domain sellers sold say 5 or 10% of their portfolio each year but many do not it is more like 0.5% or 1%.

      And the reason they sell such a small proportion is that their prices are well above market value, and hence the land analogy fails. Because land rarely sells for much above market value – ask for more and buyer will probably find another plot that suits him just as well.

      Not so easy with a domain name because buyer has often invested a lot of thought into coming up with an idea that best matches a particular domain, or even has already launched a business under that name.

      What’s so aggravating is that it’s not enough to be the top bidder, a buyer must also match whatever arbitrary amount the seller thinks he deserves.

    • False. You’re the carpet baggers, and nazi opportunists of the internet. You basically saw an opportunity to extort less than tech savvy entrepreneurs of the 90s and the kids who grew up wanting to start a business. You bought items you knew businesses would want or need and then charged them very unfair prices. Domain hoarding hurts entrepreneurs which in turn detracts from free enterprise and hurts economy takes away potential jobs etc… There’s plenty of cases where domainers like HugeDomains have back-end deals with ICANN and register expired domains with priority vs a small consumer who wants to actually develop the site. HugeDomain’s then trys to sell the site the small consumer wanted at unreasonable rates.

    • There is quite a lot of ignorance with regard to domain investing, and you are no exception, It’s always amusing to read how people like you lump all domain investors into one basket and resort to name calling like a 7 year old does at recess.

      Tell me Brains, what is the alternative? Do we police the internet to the degree that ONLY entrepreneurs be allowed to register domain names? OR police the prices where big brother steps in and tells us how much we can and cannot sell them for?

      There are hundreds of new GTLD’s that businesses can use in place of the dot com and for a fraction of the price, but they want those, NO no, they want the DOT COM, much like I want to live in a Mansion and drive a Ferrari.

      You want the best?, pay for it! Open your wallet because there are hundreds of other people just like you who want that same domain name, and I’d be a fool selling it to you for $100 when I know I can get $10,000 from someone else, that’s NOT greed, that’s just business smart.

      And if by some slim chance I got wasted out of my mind and sold it to you for $100, don’t tell me you wouldn’t turn around and resell it for 5 figures if given the chance, then you’d be no different than us, right Nazi opportunist?

    • If someone else would pay $10,000 then it’s only fair to ask for that much. But $10,000 is often asked for where nobody else is likely to pay anywhere near as much.

      Sadly it makes financial sense for the seller because only a few jackpots are required from buyers who have their heart set on one particular domain, to make up for the majority of the portfolio never selling.

    • You are worthless. Maybe actually build something of use instead of buying things people who would use them would, and shut the fuck up about your “business smart”. It’s fucking greed, asshole. Go fucking rot in hell.

    • Paul,

      You are scum. And you’re probably unsuccessful in business to boot. All the cry babies are the ones complaining. Same as people who don’t get the promotions at their work for some excuse they came up with. Don’t be a loser.

  30. Sure you are scum, hoarding domains you don’t use and offer them for extortion price. You offer no value on the internet. Looks like bunch of small time scammers and used car salesman from Detroit discovered internet and figured how they can ruin it for everyone.

    Pat yourself on the back and tell yourself how nobody understands your business “model”.

    • Exactly. They are creating absolutely no value. It is simple profiteering and yet they seem to have convinced at least themselves it is a legitimate business. Simply taking advantage of a situation hoping to extort someone actually out to accomplish something. That they feel entitled to do this is disgusting to me.

    • No value? I disagree.

      I asked this question but whiners like you never seem to provide an answer, What is the solution? you have NONE, all you do is complain, name call and feel sorry for yourself because you cant afford the domain you want, and because of your bad fortune domainers are scum, hoarders and extortionists?

      The only solution is to police or regulate who get’s what domain name, if that were to happen, would domain reselling still exist? of course it would, but at much higher resale prices, The end user would have the domain, he/she would use it, build on it and expect a lot more money for if you offered to buy it.

      The domainer or hoarder as you like to call them RESERVES that name for resale, no matter what you think of domainers, that is “VALUE”

      If you could turn back the clock and register any name you wanted, you would be the biggest hoarder on the planet, you’d be like all the rest but more prolific because you know what the future holds, It’s in nature, when opportunity knocks you grab it.

      Having said this, I agree the majority of domainers are SCUM, NOT for reselling legitimate domain names but for registering domains that infringe on trademarks with the intent to resell, hoping to capitalize on other peoples hard work.. Also Tragedy squatters, people who register domains of a tragedy like 911 or deaths of famous celebrities hoping to make a profit, I will NOT defend these people, they are indeed the SCUM of the earth.. You want to attack domainers? attack them on this front and I will join in the festivities.

  31. Since many domainers want to claim that domains are like real estate, I think renewal fees should be based on the value of the domain just how taxes are applied to real estate. People claiming their domain is worth $10,000 and paying a $30 a year renewal fee shows that the system is broken and desperately needs to be fixed!

  32. I think it is simply that the internet was created in the light of empowering knowledge and bettering the human race. So buying a part of that virtual technology, that was very philanthropically invented to freely share information, knowledge, and a better life, then letting it lay barren isn’t in line with the common interest. Kind of like shooting an animal and taking it’s horns and leaving the meat rot. So don’t kid yourself about people being upset for much more than that. I also must to state the obvious, that real estate and domains should never be compared. Land must be worked and cared for with a particular respect that no domain could be compared to.

  33. Maybe if anyone of you actually owned a “real” business, a start-up business and were being blackmailed by domain name whores for 1000’s just to get your company’s name on the internet you might understand. Now-days you may have to spend 1000’s just to get a domain name or change your company’s name. So, by virtue of this capitalist venture (domain name hoarding) you have help to stifle entrepreneur growth. Its now part of the startup process just to see what a person/group of people are willing to pay to get the domain of choice for their startup and seriously cuts into ones capital just for naming. It used to not matter if two companies had the same name, operating in different cities, etc. While I’m all in favor of capitalism, I do not agree that one can own words/names and prevent others from using them or extorting money for the entrepreneur to gain access to it. You will in the end force the ICC because of complainants to bring more fairness into the fold. Domain Names and the hoarding there of were never intended to be a business in and of their self. This is the root of the frustration with thousands of entrepreneurs.

  34. hoarding is evil. Business owners, mom and pop shops, restaurants, tailor shops etc… all were focused on business and their lives instead of learning how to build a website. Hoarders, knowing who they were, stole their name and then blackmailed them into paying asinine fee’s or suffer business losses from lack of awareness. You are nazi opportunists of the internet. You hurt the economy for self benefit and try to call it “investing”. Wall street speculation, which is what your doing, broke the economy in 2008 your just small time versions of them.

  35. I like how you attempt to justify hoarding domain names with real estate. Real estate is only sold at the market values and does not hinder anyone from building there own or finding what they want else where. If i want a specific domain name I can’t go around and search for that same domain name like I can a house. You hoard these domains for 20-30 years and attempt to have them sold for tens of thousands of dollars until someone gets desperate. You force the hand of others like government and that’s when people get pissed off. You hinder the ability of an entrepreneur to an extent from pursuing an e-commerce or online presence. They have to either figure out a creative domain name that isn’t taken or change the name of their business when their original name may have really good. At some point everything creative will be hoarded and websites will cease to exist unless we pay an arm and a leg for them. So yes FUCK YOU hoarders!

    • “You hinder the ability of an entrepreneur to an extent from pursuing an e-commerce or online presence”

      Nonsense, there are over 1200 generic and country code TLD’s that can be used in finding a name for your business. For example; Whocares.company is readily availble, not the best TLD I agree, but it is a TLD that can be used, so how is that a hindrance?

      You also fail to take into account that many domain owners purchase domain names at auctions, sometimes paying in the thousands or tens of thousands of dollars, I would not refer to that person as a hoarder but rather as an investor, no different than buying one of kind baseball cards, or do you expect these cards to be sold for their original selling price as well?

      Bottom line is, you want a dot com but you either don’t have the money OR you do have the money and your too cheap to pay for it.

    • I am well aware of the auctions and the new domain extensions. Your analogy of a baseball card is still no comparison or a way to justify your hoarding of domain names.

      Those extra extensions were created as a way to make money. The original extensions were all scooped up immediately and so now there is no money coming in. They were feeling the pressure of going bankrupt. So what happens? “Hey! We have new extensions that aren’t going to go anywhere, but we need money so here you go hoarders. Pay us!!!” They knew you would go scoop up every domain they could before hey hit the public. Guess what? people are now in the same place they were before those existed.

      Being too cheap? Your average start up company does not want to pay or invest $20k-$100k+ for a domain name that may not work. However if hey had that ability to have an online presence it’s possible they would succeed much easier. You hinder that ability and chance for them to get their name out there for a small fee. You do more harm hoarding and forcing people to pay a ridiculous amount of money.

      Domain hoarders are no better than Martin Shrekli!

      Instead of forcing people to pay thousands why don’t you lease it to them for 15-20/yr. You maintain the rights, the ownership, and the control. Someone wants the website you simply direct that domain to their Nameservers. Oh wait it’s not about helping people I forgot!

  36. You deflected my point regarding GTLD’s, regardless of the reasons why they were created, they are in fact available to you for your business, you can obtain one with very little money, but you don’t want to do that, you want the dot com and you feel that in some way you are the ONLY one who is entitled to it.

    You call domain investors hoarders, but you say nothing about Godaddy, Google, Marchex and many other large companies who hold the largest domain portfolios in the industry.. I challenge you to buy your dot com through one of them for pennies on the dollar, or to lease one, or let along receive a reply..

    Many domain investors with smaller portfolios do offer leasing, there is also domain lenders that will loan the money and you make payments, most of the time for less than a lease payment.. Instead of crying that you cant get the name you want, trying exploring other options, most sellers will work with you, but their not going to sell for the pennies your offering, I know I wouldn’t.

  37. Just 2 weeks ago i tried buying an URL for my startup from a go-daddy auction. Of course i was outbid in the last minute of the auction (and not home to make my own last second bid) and now the URL is for sale for some 2500$

    Fucking scum should be eradicated

  38. You are scum, because you add exactly zero value to society. You take a system of relative abundance and you force scarcity onto it for your own exclusive gain.

  39. I came across your site, and specifically this article doing some research for an upcoming commentary article I am writing on your industry. I think it is unfair that you guys hear such nasty comments, your are in fact engaging in a legitimate business, and it seems the folks at ICANN don’t mind. I can understand peoples frustration though, as someone who develops websites it can be a bit irritating to have a great name for a project only to find that the domains have all been registered. I am glad I stopped by here to gain some perspective from your side of the debate. I still question the ethics of this business model, but I have left with a better understanding of it.

  40. Domain hoarders are scum who add nothing to the world. I can’t have the domain I need because some scum bag, parasite pile of crap is hoarding it and demanding ungodly amounts of cash for it. I would rather be shot in the crotch than pay him what he is asking. F-it I quit. I came here just to express rage and hate for that a-hole and others just like him.

  41. Sorry, I have to agree. As someone who actually searches for domains to USE, I get sick and tired of spending literally HOURS to find ONE domain I can use because EVERY SINGLE THING I TRY IS TAKEN!

    I’m sick of it!

    No, I don’t want to use some domain extension no one has ever heard of and won’t remember to type in if they want to come back to my site again, from some country that wants $85 a year for a domain just because.

    And no, I’m not going to spend $3,500 for some three-word domain just because you got there before I did.

    If I have to register xyzthisismydomainnamexyz.com just to keep from paying your over-inflated prices, I will. And it will only cost me $11 a year. But I want you all to know how much I hate you and your kind.

    Feel free to hate me back, because you’re the scumbag, not me.

  42. Maybe, instead of just buying domains and selling them for extortionate prices, you should actually contribute to society. How does selling a domain name fo $35000 help humanity?

  43. That’s because domain hoarders are not considered morally sound or ethical in their actions. There are people who want domains for legitimate reasons most probably because they have running businesses with said name.Domain hoarders most of them are considered to be filthy greedy f**** as per majority opinion and this will not change unless people stop buying and selling domains for the fun of it. Unlike stocks, domain hoarders are literally blocking genuine businesses from having a presence online and the efforts of business owners most of them that run small businesses are burdened further in having to meet the greedy demands of these fat a** jobless oversmart a$$*****.

    • “Unlike stocks, domain hoarders are literally blocking genuine businesses from having a presence online and the efforts of business owners most of them that run small businesses are burdened further in having to meet the greedy demands of these fat a** jobless oversmart a$$*****.”

      That is simply a poor argument. If the exact match domain name is owned by an investor and you can’t afford the price, buy a different extension or change the name a bit. You are not entitled to the exact match domain name just because it will help your business any more than I am entitled to an undeveloped piece of real estate in a prime location owned by someone else.

      If it is a case where there is a cybersquatter, file a lawsuit (ie your business is called Excalotapaloota and someone bought Excalotapaloota.com a year after your business was founded). If you choose the lawsuit route, make sure the claim is legitimate or you could end up being sued for reverse domain name hijacking and on the hook for a serious judgment.

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